Flying today with the eFB, I had to look at the LANDR arrival into the Denver area. I was disappointed to see that the plan view is on a different "document" than the narrative. So when you look at the list of STARs, you see two different entries for each arrival.

This means that after you've looked at the plan view, you have to give the up one level command (the lightning bolt), but that doesn't take you to the list of STARs. Instead, it takes you to the list of all things for that airport, then you select arrivals, then you select the narrative page for the arrival. This is very cumbersome, and I wouldn't want to do it hard IFR by myself.

Why can't the narrative just be page 2 of the arrival, so you get to it by flipping the page bar?

Daniel,
I blieve the trip folder, would resolve this to an extend as you could select the documents and the order in which they are displayed. This is currently in the works.

The problem is with NOAA, that is the way they make the stupid charts. Jepp is the answer to that, but being able to flip pages would solve the problem also.

Just for the record--I have used NACO charts extensively in the Air Force and for Private flying. I also used Jepps extensively as a pilot for a major airline for 14 years. The honest truth is that I actually prefer the NACO charts. They are simpler and easier to read. All the info is readily available. Don't know why anyone would have a problem in using the NACO chart. That's just my 2 cents worth.

The page flipper or trip kits has to come soon, as stated above SIDS and STARS are totally useless without it and approach plates are pretty close.

Instead of a trip kit, why not just enter the airport identifier(no stylus) and then make the page flipper start at STAR 1 and flip all the way to the last NDB approach. This is what we do with real Jepp or NACO charts and it works great, then you don't have to back up and reload during arrival or approach.

Johan:
I'm with RoyZ on this. No need to set up a from/to trip package. Just let us enter an airport and flip through the plates like a book. One amendment to that preference is to let the first page be a contents page for that airport that you can tap directly to a desired plate, and from there either use the flip bar through the whole airport or use the section up key (lightning bolt) to go back to the contents for that airport and direct select another plate.

Oh, and one other thought: a "long" page forward--iLliad for a 5 page advance--would take you directly to the Airport Diagram. That way once you've landed you can hold the flip bar a few seconds and be ready to follow your taxi instructions on a strange airport.

RoyZ, Daniel-
This is genius! Excellent, excellent idea! While I still want to see the trip-kit materialize, the ability to just put in the airport ID and the basically flip around between approaches, STARs, DPs and Airport Diagrams would be perfect. I can't believe they didn't do this from the get-go. It's kind of changing gears a bit I guess... but it would serve to take the stylus out of the picture sooner and back into it's holder until you are on the ground (hopefully). Frankly, I'd like to see the ability to ditch the stylus (optionally) period. If you could pull up a list of states, scroll and select, and a list of "A-F", "G-L" etc... - something along those lines maybe.
*The 5-page flip is essential for sure I think. Consider that DFW has about 100 pages or so...

Thanks guys. Support? Are you gettin' all this?

Chris R

Many of these ideas have been discussed before in other threads. I hope that the development team was paying attention then and again now.

I would want to keep the short-cut of entering an airport ID directly but I would also like to be able to scroll through the list of states, then through a list of airports. In keeping with the eFB concept as an eReader, that behaves like an index. Once on a page (or chart), I should be able to page-flip through the entire book - which in this case is the set of charts for the whole United States.

With a similar 5-page flip, you would never be more than a few page turns away from any chart at the same airport and page-flips are much more tolerant of turbulence and fumbling than the stylus.

If they manage to put a trip-kit feature together than does not depend on assembling it on a PC and downloading it, it might do. My question all along as been - why bother? Just provide a better user interface to find charts and page between them.

I haven't seen an answer but I suspect that it there are some problems creating a flexible index into the charts to implement a state/airport grouping. The way that the PC and eFB viewers work, I suspect that the charts are not well indexed.

Providing a state/airport index might require too much space or require too much manual coding during updates to make it a viable solution for them. Doing a trip-kit allows them to save space in the database but provide a usable grouping of the charts - driven by the user.

Travis, I don't think you need the state index. All you need is to use the up/down and select keys to "type" in the identifier. We do this all the time with a GPS and it works fairly well(it is slow but effective). Having the states indexed would help(or a list of closest to the selected airport for diversions) but I don't think it is make or break.

I'm anxious to hear what the MyAirplane/eFlybook developers have to say about what is -or isn't- "feasible/viable".
The single-letter scroll method (i.e. GPS) would seem to be a technologically feasible option, and it may ultimately be faster and easier than an indexing system like state/airport, or whatever.
Again, getting away from "having" to use the stylus would be my big-wish.
I suppose if you could use the page bar to move between fields (like GNS-430 big-knob) and the up-down arrows to scroll, lastly the select-dot to enter... That could be useful (?) Of course upon selection of that airport, you'd then be presented with a list of AP's, etc. for scrolling through.
I'd make the assumption that most pilots who buy one of these things (eFlybook) are flying with GPS, so learning curve should be next-to-nil there.
Good suggestion Royz.
(Again, I hope the developers are getting this!)

You know what? I have absolutely no idea what I was thinking. You are correct. Using the keys to scroll through letters to enter the airport ID would be a great way to get to an airport.

I would be perfectly happy with:

1) using Up/Down keys to enter the ID

2) Up/Down/Enter keys work to move selection cursor and select chart types and specific charts. Page flips should also work with the index pages for charts. Why do we need to have Back/Next stylus buttons?

3) short-press page-flipping among the charts for a single airport

4) long page-flips within the charts for an airport jumps 5 charts

5) the "back" button short-press goes back to the airport ID screen with the previously entered ID still there

6) the "back button long-press goes to the beginning of the charts for the current airport which should be the airport diagram

7) Up/Down keys pans the displayed chart up/down

8) When you launch the eFB application it remembers where you were (last airport ID entered, last chart viewed).

How 'bout a little feedback from the ma.com team? You have said that you were going to make stylus navigation possible. How about a little teaser as to what you are thinking?

The only problem is Travis, we have all these great ideas, but no one is listening. Have you noticed that my airplane hasn't even announced that 2.8 is out yet, and it has been 2 weeks. They have the basics of a great product here if they can keep up the development until it is at least somewhat mature.

I think that they are listening. However, their attention span does seem to peak and fade. Other than being invited to their design meetings, this is one of very few avenues of input that we have and they do seem to pay attention. That doesn't mean that they turn around and code our ideas but, I hope, it might sway a design decision in our favor when they are just flipping a coin.

I believe the key to their success is to keep costs down and make small, quality improvements. There is too much competition out there and their claim to fame is low-cost. If that means that no software gets written this month because they use the software guys as tech support or marketeers at a show, so be it. I'll be anxious to meet them at Sun n' Fun. I'll be the one carrying my eFB around to take notes.



About 2.8 -

If I remember, Chris posted that they were done testing and that they were waiting for iRex to release. I think that this was in response to a question in one of the threads. Of course, it would have been better to post that in the dedicated announcements thread at the top - which still refers to 2.7.

After that, I got an email from iRex saying it was ready.